@Elizabeth That’s the dream - the end goal! But we do have to start somewhere, so anything we can achieve right now is a positive.

@Elizabeth I have tried this in the past and have found some teachers more up for this than others. I find it particularly difficult as my library is used for timetabled curriculum lessons, so finding the time is a bigger problem as would involve re-rooming classes! having said that, I'm excited to try this again next year (Covid restrictions willing!)

I love the quote that even older students still "need guidance in learning to think about their thinking" and applies to ourselves too! I agree with @Stephanie and have found @Elizabeth 's structured questions have aided my own thinking skills. At times I can definitely feel that 'light bulb' moment and being able to take stock, reflect and begin to apply this thinking and knowledge into practice.

@Tom Neilson That is a brilliant diagram! I may very steal it! Yes, the affective domain and the acknowledgement of the difficulties faced has really enlightened the process to me. I agree, we all 'knew' about this at some level, but having the research to confirm and dare I say, validate those feelings?

I agree that all three factors would apply here. I have experience of seeing the cognitive overload in our EPQ & HPQ students and have found the reading and discussion here really beneficial in terms of recognising the affective domain. I have been able to incorporate some of this aspect into sessions with Year 12 this term, especially the cyclic process, although there is still more work to be done. The chapter discusses teaching skills several times (eg searching a database) before introducing the inquiry project and I think this is where the Librarian can help with library lessons (if they are scheduled with library lessons.) Then as @Elizabeth has mentioned, a lot of the leg work has already been covered, so will not take up the whole lesson. Time is always a problem. It will always be a problem! Teaching time-management skills is helpful, although I feel that students only really appreciate this part retrospectively. it just does not sink in until they learn from their own experience! I think I have mentioned before teaching staff have even less time to incorporate all the things they'd like to be able to; I feel they do recognise the importance of inquiry skills but until we manage to introduce a whole-school approach, there are more immediate and pressing demands that have to be met.

I agree with everyone's comments so far, and yes @Elizabeth I think the fact both models lend themselves well in comparison to each other, is comforting and my understanding is that FOSIL is based on many models of inquiry as indeed was the Alberta model. The main differences that struck me are that the Alberta model appears to recognise the affective domain (feelings) more than FOSIL, and I think this is something we discussed last month. I think it's really useful to compare models, as we can easily incorporate aspects into our own planning. These were my initial thoughts, but I do take aboard your comments @Darryl Toerien . Apologies for repeating what @Stephanie has shared, but I too can see Planning equating to Connect. I also see it in Wonder, especially with identifying questions, other than to simply seek information, but to develop into more challenging questions, of an inquiry nature. I think, although both models suggest mind-mapping and brain-storming, the Alberta model in Planning, is more explicit in identifying what is already known and how that is known. Retrieving and Investigate correspond to the bare bones of research, and where Librarians traditionally feel more at ease in assisting. I note in Retrieving, the Alberta model mentions this is where students often feel 'information overload' and while FOSIL may not have direct mention to it, I think educators have always recognised this. I also see Processing in Investigate, with the evaluation of resources. Creating links to Construct, (perhaps the most obvious connection), but also in Express with sharing peer reviews etc, although Sharing is the best fit with Express. Evaluating compares with Reflect and I agree with @Darryl Toerien & @Elizabeth , it's easy to see this with EPQ, but I need to remind myself to consider this within the whole FOSIL framework throughout all year groups. Thank you @Elizabeth , comparing the models has helped consolidate my understanding of how both models work.

I’ve borrowed the phrase from a colleague. It could be all of those things you mention! It’s when they (or you) have been struggling over something and you overcome whatever the problem was, feel that sense of achievement, but nobody is there to applaud you or say well done at that exact moment! It could be finishing the Literature Review or even just completing the planning bit or finding a source that either supports or argues against another source. It literally could be anything, and apply to all aspects of life - not just inquiry or research! I quite like the term!

It’s a tricky one, because like most things in life, it’s when they’ve finished,students look back and can appreciate the effort and work involved. With HPQ & EPQ, we have invited previous cohorts to speak with current students so they can share that frustrations are a normal part of the inquiry and learning process. This has worked well and the 13s also give tips to the 12s who are starting their journey. Perhaps they can relate more to their peers who have successfully completed the process, than to us as educators. Or at least it enforces what we are saying!

@Elizabeth apologies, this appears to have posted in the wrong place! The app on my phone was glitching and jumping all over the place!

It does seem that we are way behind in the UK with this, but I think you’re right; we’ve been teaching the skills, just not to a model like these. Also, with most research we adapt ideas & suggestions to suit our own school & students. I think it makes our job easier to have a model to refer to , even if we don’t follow it strictly to the letter.

@Elizabeth It's also important to celebrate success. The obstacles they've overcome or the "silent applause" moment when this happens.

@Elizabeth That would make very interesting reading! Another factor, especially in EPQ/HPQ for very bright students is that they are not used to getting it 'wrong'. Sometimes they are 'text-book' smart and the questioning/ thinking process and re-evaluating part can be a struggle - this could be the first time they've received criticism, albeit constructive. I honestly believe undertaking an EPQ gives students a head start for uni, but with an inquiry model all through a student's education, then everyone would be on a more level playing field.

I have to thank you @Elizabeth , because it was while looking at the questions posted I checked out the Resource page on the FOSIL website and the very EPQ document you've listed! Although it's more AQA relevant (and we do Edexcel), there were still apsects I thought were useful, so forwarded to our EPQ co-ordinator. We have since had a conversation about FOSIL and it's potential introduction in school and have agreed that I will be introducing aspects of it to our current Year 12 cohort. So watch this space!

@Elizabeth Yes, I would agree and directing students to resources available in school and externally, use of synonyms etc when formulating questions, plagiarism, referencing and everything else we normally do!

The biggest challenge will be time and staff resistance to change; it really needs whole school buy in, as you say @Elizabeth . Since lockdown, teaching staff are facing an uphill task in ensuring students have 'caught up' on any work missed; trying to teach a busy curriculum, sometimes twice with a blended curriculum, when some students are having to isolate. Currently, as a school, we are adopting a new behaviour policy with multiple changes and new instructions, and that's without the ever changing Covid guidelines. Their workload is already threatening to topple! Trying to introduce a whole-school learning system now would be a big challenge. The key will be to start small, target one class and see how it evolves over time. I'm thrilled to be able to get more involved this way with our year 12 cohort and EPQ, but it is very early days still!

It is totally relevant to HPQ/EPQ students. Level of engagement is higher if the student is passionate about their project process. In lessons, giving options on themes so there is that element of ownership and choice - and I agree @stephanie, the book does encourage teachers to do this by checking the library resources first. I heard Andrew McCallum (English & Media Centre) speak about the importance of student choice at the reading for Pleasure conference a couple of years ago. The Librarian can help assist the teacher in ensuring relevant resources are available, and there are the online resources and public libraries too that can be directed to.

"This guidance keeps them focused and moving forward towards a refined finished product that they can demonstrate a level of understanding and learning. Otherwise students are at risk of just putting everything they find into their end product learning very little. " @Elizabeth This again ties in really well with EPQ - the mark scheme for planning, using resources & evaluation is higher than the marks for the discussion (which many view as the end product.

@Elizabeth You raise a good point about students needing to know what information is out there, before they can create their questions and this is definitely something we say during EPQ sessions; but in terms of narrowing their research question. They still need to think about questions before this stage, and this links into the non-linear approach of FOSIL - it's a back and forth journey.

@Elizabeth We seem to borrow bits from here and there! We use CRAVEN (which is similar to CRAAP), some PLUS method, but we currently do not have a uniformed model. I can see how FOSIL works in this way. I like that it is not linear - we are encouraging students and acknowledging the need to go back and forth. This is not surprising as FOSIL has evolved from extensive research and previous models of inquiry.

I think feelings are important to acknowledge - perhaps students' initial feelings of bewilderment - that where do I start? Feelings of frustration when answers may not immediately be found at the click of a mouse. Teaching students to overcome these obstacles, and as stated, "thinking about thinking" is the first step. Also, encouraging that passion for a project, the ownership that inquiry learning provides.